[David Gadsby]

OxnSox and Sam, as much as I appreciate your comments this thread is not the place for them.

Sam your comment was nothing but a flame bait and Ox your comments aren't adding anything to the discussion. Jarmani is trying to have a valid question answered by one of the mods and TBH your posts aren't helping. In fact they're doing the exact opposite and frustrating the OP.

As much as we love having your input on these forums (and we do, the chocolates in the mail) I respectfully ask you both to remember that there is a time and a place and this most certainly isn't either.

Any futher questions feel free to PM either John, Paul or Myself.


Thanks

David

[Sam]

Suitably chastised.

Apologies to Jarmani; I just dislike going around and around in circles.

[David Gadsby]

Nobody likes going round in circles but it doesn't make for a nice enviroment if we nuke everybody with an old question. We're here to help. If you need to flame somebody flame me in a PM

[MikeyPI]

(edit)
Again, you state that people genuinely want to be suckered into to signing up for IQ Quiz etc. Yeah, right! If this was so why the extremely small print which is not even viewable unless the page is scrolled down?
Now, just leave it to Paul Brislen to answer my initial question. I am really wanting an answer here.

The scum, make you scroll down! How dare they!
you have the answer many times, you prefer not to listen.

In all your problems, the common denominator is you!

[MikeyPI]

OK, we now have a definitive answer - Vodafone consider that you cannot be scammed unless your phone is used to sign up. However, I am absolutely certain my phone was never used for this (as are other posters you linked to). The details came from my Facebook page.

Paul, it is interesting, is it not, that those links you gave confirm that the Vodafone help desk fails to give the correct details on how to unsubscribe - my experience as well. Also, it seems that Vodafone insists on pleading innocent to this scam - as if they don't make a cent out of it. They even have people who have been scammed thanking Vodafone for their 'help'! - not realising Vodafone is complicit in this practice.

I would think Vodafone are doing very well from it and there still a lot more 'fresh meat' out there amongst their customers. It is not true that Vodafone cannot sift out the bad eggs from their SMS customers. Unfortunately for we customers, it is those bad eggs that funnel a good chunk of dosh into the Vodafone coffers. From internet searches I have found that Vodafone have quite a reputation for this elsewhere in the world.

I know you are about to hit the 'kill' button on this thread so I'm out of here - save you the trouble. Goodbye.

Cmon man its common knowledge VFNZ is out to get you. Dont worry you can borrow my tin-foil hat!

[Jarmani]

Cmon man its common knowledge VFNZ is out to get you.

To MileyPI

I was going to abdicate from this thread but your provocation has me on the boil - yet again!

I would first off like to say thanks to Paul Brislen for finally giving a straight-forward answer to my query - he states that (according to Vodafone) you cannot be subscribed to a SMS service unless their is a response from the mobile affected. I disagree with this and am about to do my best to prove that this is not true. I would also like to say thanks to Paul for providing this discussion group for people to discuss Vodafone related issues - it was very brave of him to instigate this in light of the flak he was leaving himself open to. So, thanks Paul - this is more like the Paul I once worked with and respected.

If Vodafone was just out to get me, fine, I'll move to 2 degrees. But it is out to get all its customers - at least those that havn't been burnt yet by the scamsters and aren't aware that their accounts and prepay is so easily drained - sometimes without them even noticing. I, obviously, won't be doing this again (completing a supposedly 'innocent' Facebook quiz) but there are plenty of others who soon will be. Have you no empathy for these people MikeyPI, Mascell, Sam, oxnsox? - or do you wallow in your smug stance that 'they' are idiots and deserve being ripped off.

This is a world wide scam that is now proliferating here - with a lot of the profits going off-shore to Zhenya Tsvetnenko who runs a lot of these scams out of Australia (http://classactionconnect.com/cell_phone_issues/2008/03/06/lovesoulmate-my-1-pure-love-perfectlover-crushcalculator/). This is how he financed his million dollar wedding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-sodkq5_j8) - with our money!

Not all people watch Fair Go or Campbell Live, not all people scour websites to find out what the scams are that they should be wary of - not, at least, until they are scammed themselves, then they find a wealth of info on others who this has happened to - see below. Yes, I was scammed - stupid me! I am usually scam wary, I am careful about divulging my credit card numbers on-line and careful about what software I download. But I NEVER thought for one moment that my mobile provider would leave my prepay account wide open to be plundered by their scamster SMS customers. I am not being paranoid about this - it has happened to many others who are just as shocked that their mobile companies allow this rip-off to continue, despite the large amount of evidence that these are scams. I have asked amongst my family and friends (all of them computer savvy) and many of them have been hit. I was in star Smith's yesterday and the computer savvy sales guy there said how he'd been ripped off by this. How much money is being made here? And who gets a cut off this scam? And who is paid to look the other way while it happens?

Here are just a few links from those who never had any intention of being registered for any SMS service and who have NO recourse once the draining of their prepay or account starts.

hmmm ... well it seems I am not allowed to post some or one of the sites I had listed to I've had to chop them.

[MikeyPI]

Maybe your should take your misdirected anger and focus it on the people who scammed who. Too many stupid/lazy people come to these forum,s to have a meaningless vent at VF, about issues that have nothing to do with them.

But its far easier to not do any research on WHO scammed you , approach them for what you think is rightfully yours. Instead, you come straight to the largest, easiest target you can find, but in the process make yourself out to appear moronic, and are surprised when people ridicule you.

People like you post such gems as.....

"I bought my Iphone from Apple, I want VF to fix it",
"I bought my Iphone from Apple, where's my VF warranty?",
"Whens Google bringing Apps?"
"When are you going to fix Apples software?"

You got scammed because you were easily persuaded. Fraud on the other and then that is different, and if that is what is happened, then you should have a clear cut case against the company that defrauded you, and you can make a complaint with the Police, and escalate the process with VFNZ, as Paul said.

This post has been edited by MikeyPI: 09 August 2009 - 10:43 PM

[Jarmani]

MikeyPI
I really don't see what vents about Apple have to do with this issue. You are the one off-target here. Vodafone sign up these SMS companies as customers. Vodafone profits from their business. I don't see what 'lazy' has to do with it. I don't expect that my mobile provider will hand over my prepay and divvy up the proceeds with the scammer. Are you implying that I am expecting too much from Vodafone?

[MikeyPI]

MikeyPI
I really don't see what vents about Apple have to do with this issue. You are the one off-target here. Vodafone sign up these SMS companies as customers. Vodafone profits from their business. I don't see what 'lazy' has to do with it. I don't expect that my mobile provider will hand over my prepay and divvy up the proceeds with the scammer. Are you implying that I am expecting too much from Vodafone?

No you just make baseless accusations and ignorant assumptions.

VFNZ and Telecom sign up ALL premium TXT services. Just because 1 off those has "apparently" defrauded you, VFNZ are somehow complicit in it? Yeah right. That's why the the commerce commission laughed, and unequivocally said the would not investigate such companies unless proof of fraud.

Because you, like most people complaining, clicked the little box that says "Click here to accept our Term and Conditions[sic]"

My heart bleeds.
If in fact you were defrauded, then instead of spamming forums, you could follow simple instructions, PM Paul all details, as such he can provide technical information to refute, or verify your claims.

Your lack of doing so, combined with continual posts, lead me, and probably others, to believe you were not defraud, but merely suckered in, and now like most who get scammed, you look to blame others for your misfortune.

[oxnsox]

..Oh I thought we were there already...

...everyone ... Back in the car...

[David Gadsby]

you have the answer many times, you prefer not to listen.
In all your problems, the common denominator is you!

but in the process make yourself out to appear moronic, and are surprised when people ridicule you.

No you just make baseless accusations and ignorant assumptions.
Because you, like most people complaining, clicked the little box that says "Click here to accept our Term and Conditions[sic]"

My heart bleeds.

Mikey... While I agree with a lot of what you have said we ask if you could please use a bit more tact when composing your replies. A lot of your responses (which I've quoted) are not needed and only serve to frustrate and wind the OP up.


That aside, Jarmani, have you PM'd Paul your account details?

[Jarmani]

That aside, Jarmani, have you PM'd Paul your account details?

I haven't PM'ed Paul yet as I was scammed three months ago and I have been informed that Vodafone do not keep records for prepay phones beyond a week - so I have little chance of proving that I did not PIN back the registration number. Also, Paul has only just confirmed that to subscribe, a PIN number must be sent back.
Anyway, it should be obvious I am not spending all this time just so that I personally can get my dollars back - if it were about the dollars it would not be worth my (or most other people's) effort to try and prove that they have been defrauded. Thus most people give up at the first hurdle - something that the scamsters are banking on. My aim is to get this shady practice banned. But first I need to know what is legal and what isn't. So, Paul Brislen confirming that a PIN is required has furthered my knowledge in this area. I am now hoping to contact someone who has recently been scammed or who is on account that has been scammed but did not PIN back on their phone. The we can prove to doubters like Paul that this is happening.

[Mascell]

This was posted on June 1 in another forum....are you this same person by any chance ?

My wife started to get unsolicited "IQ Test" sms messages on the 15th May (Starting with one with a 'pin' number and a min 30 later a 'you're signed up' message. Both of these timestamped at just after 5am.

I was made aware of this yesterday, but only after she had recieved 8 of these 'subscription' messages, at a cost of around $28.

According to 'Mobile Service Desk' she would have had to enter her mobile number, then enter the PIN sent via text, to subscribe.

I was happy to stay out of it as you told me but you brought me back in with a question which I am happy to answer but I have a couple of my own, I'm sure you won't mind

If the above is you then it wasn't you that signed up it was your wife, correct?

1. why did she wait for 8 charged messages before attempting to do anything about it? after 2 maybe 3 unsolicited messages people would normally realise something wasn't right , did she not check her balance ?

2, If the above poster is you the question you ask here (again) was also asked and answered by Paul there in that forum, this question was also answered by 'Mobile Service Helpdesk' in Australia according to the thread in the other forum who gave the same answer. So why did you need to come back and ask it again ?

3.Didn't you in fact go to the SMS company in South Africa and lodge a complaint in their website and didn't they suggest you go off-net and give them your personal details so they could resolve it ? Unfortunaely the poster didn't follow up with a comment so I don't know if the SMS company apologised, refunded the lost money or were of any assistance at all.

As I said, all this presupposes you are the other poster on the other forum...if you are not then obviously this doesn't apply and I unreservedly apologise for the inference but would suggest the other thread on this other forum may be of some help and am happy to supply the url if required.

To answer your question, YES, of course I have some empathy for those of us, like myself, ( as mentioned in the locked thread ) who are suckered in by our own egos...that's what it boils down to....my friends had supposedly done the test and I wanted to beat their score......I didn't read the T&Cs, when I checked back they were not in fine print and were in fact quite detailed...I just hadn't bothered to scroll down...my ego got the better of me because like most humans I am vain and wanted to impress

I was lucky but surprised when the first I got was not my results but a message from Vodafone saying I did not have enough credit to subscribe to a premium text service. My daughter has fallen for it twice...both off facebook but with different layouts....each time she was asked to enter a pin, neither time did she , and she was not subsequently charged. Guess we were just lucky but anything else would surely be a fraud and subject to legal process as the ComCom advised ?

[Jarmani]

To answer your question, YES, of course I have some empathy for those of us, like myself, ( as mentioned in the locked thread ) who are suckered in by our own egos...that's what it boils down to....my friends had supposedly done the test and I wanted to beat their score......I didn't read the T&Cs, when I checked back they were not in fine print and were in fact quite detailed...I just hadn't bothered to scroll down...my ego got the better of me because like most humans I am vain and wanted to impress

You may be the one with the ego Mascell but I'm sure most people do this for entertainment purposes - as is the case with most content on the web. I somehow think you devised this little paragraph as a put-down and warning to all others that wish to make an issue of this scam. ie. complain and you will be targetted as egocentric, vain and stupid. That seems to be the usual method of defending this practice.

No, am not the poster in the thread you've pasted in - in fact I have never seen that one. Its another I'll need to add to my list. It is interesting that so few people are willing to give their details to Vodafone so that the cases can be checked out. Could it be that they are a little afraid that they could be targetted in some way if they make life too difficult for some people. I know I am a little because my whole business is VERY dependent on telecommunications. I know I am taking a huge risk in pursuing this but then I view it as a civic duty. I hate seeing my fellow citizens ripped off or cheated. I know it creates a sense of unease and distrust in the community. Other countries have a high level of distrust and at the moment New Zealand is praised for its openess and friendliness. I would rather it stayed that way. I am not talking about naivety here, just a sense that, in general, your fellow citizens aren't out to scam you. So, when you find your mobile provider views you as an easy target, it does make you wonder if your country has your interests at heart when they condone this practice. And so you feel a little less proud of your country and a little more uneasy about those in the community you live in. Especially when there are people like yourself, Mascell, that so willingly support the scamsters view that anyone getting suckered in deserves to lose their money. Do the scamsters also deserve to make their many millions from people's misplaced trust in their mobile provider?

[Mascell]

You seem to have a magical way of twisting things to suit your own ends and frankly I can't be bothered with your deceit.
I do not support scamsters, if it can be proven it is indeed a scam but it doesn't matter what I say you will manage to twist it to your own ends anyway. An IQ test is a matter of ego whether you like it or not and it is an easy way to sucker people..if you are so above the natural order of things that this doesn't apply to you, well good for you !!

Try looking in the previous thread, I believe there were a couple of people there who had suffered the same thing you experienced, maybe you could pm them and get their story and band together and take this to the appropriate authorities.

My post was in no way intended to belittle or antagonise, I was trying to offer other avenues of assistance, and yes I was stupid but you jarmani are paranoid if you think I was trying to close down your debate. I'm done with this and obviously will leave the last belittling word to you, as I said ..I can't be bothered !

[Tans]

Hey Jarmani, we're here to help. Again if you want to PM your details I'll happily investigate this one personally, all I need is the approx timeframe of when this happened, the 4 digit number of the text provider you were receiving messages from and of course your mobile number - I'll then see what I can do. Our text providers are contractually obliged to retain records of opt ins for just these reasons, hopefully we should be able to ask for this even within this timeframe. We obviously can't assist you unless you contact us.... If no contact then I don't believe there is anything left that we can say or do here. Hopefully you'll be in touch

[Paul Brislen]

And with that, I'm locking the thread. Personal attacks are not tolerated - I'll get out the banning stick next.