[Jarmani]

I have discussed Vodafone's questionable practice with these scams here and on another forum and have had the thread closed down on me before I was able to get the answers to my queries answered by Paul Brislen. Therefore, so that I have some chance of getting a response, I will keep the question very simple. Does Vodafone allow their customers prepay to be scammed even though there has been NO activity from their mobile phone? If has been no reponse to scammers messages, no PIN sent, no text messages sent to the scammers, NOTHING, is it still possible to be signed up to these scams. If this is not possible and/or not legitimate then can Vodafone please make a definitive statement saying so. If, it is possible to get scammed without any activity needing to have been taken place on ones mobile, could Vodafone make this quite clear so that their customers are aware of this. Can Paul Brislen please answer this question for ma and others who are interested.

[Sam]

The pedant strikes again!

[Mascell]

Honestly Jarmani premium texts are not scams, some people actually subscribe to these services and these businesses flourish because of it. Some people actually like the idea of paying for a daily sudoko to be sent to their phones or getting their daily horoscope etc. Not my cup of tea but there you go...

However, IF, as you say, you have received texts that have cost you money with NO provocation or request for them to do so and you are certain you have NOT subscribed to this service then you should be able to txt ' stop' to the number sending the txt and Vodafone could look into the issue for you. On the other hand if you HAVE subscribed inadvertently by completing one of the IQ tests without reading the T&Cs then again, txt 'stop' to the number and consider it a lesson learned and be more careful what you subscribe to.

I believe Vodafone have made it entirely clear , on this forum, what their position is regarding premium text services, I doubt very much they will change their policy . They have said they will investigate any legitimate complaint where the Txt Company is failing in their terms by not displaying T&Cs or where people have not 'opted in' or whatever, I don't see what else they can or should do.

Anyone could well have replied to one of these services using a Telecom mobile and thereafter received txts on that mobile so does that make it telecoms scam ?? No , of course not....the Telco is merely the carrier, they are not responsible for the message on the carrier except where an abuse has taken place , which they have said, they will look into.

So if you have a legitimate complaint why not PM all the details of the txts in question to one of the VF mods and they can investigate your complaint. If the CSRs have failed to follow up a legitimate complaint then maybe VF will need to look into their staff training.....All this of course is supposing that you are absolutely correct in your statement that you did nothing whatsoever to warrant this company txting you.

This post has been edited by Mascell: 09 August 2009 - 10:30 AM

[Jarmani]

The pedant strikes again!

I don't think the word 'pedant' applies here. I am just looking for a straightforawrd answer to my question. But already the attempts to put down, belittle and deride have started. This appears to be Vodafone's standard ploy in shutting down discussion on this shady practice in which they appear to be complicit. Can Paul Brislen just answer the question - is it necessary to have activated the SMS activity from the mobile phone that is scammed. Or is it acceptable that these Vodafone SMS customers need only get any mobile number (ie. from Facebook) to be able to activate the SMS registration?

[Mascell]

is it necessary to have activated the SMS activity from the mobile phone that is scammed. Or is it acceptable that these Vodafone SMS customers need only get any mobile number (ie. from Facebook) to be able to activate the SMS registration?

No and No

It is not neccesary to have activated the SMS activity from the mobile, it can be done on facebook from a PC or other device by entering the mobile number in the required field to obtain results for an IQ test. However on that page the T&C's are quite clearly laid out prior to entering your mobile number.

If you have NOT done anything like this...and no-one you know has done this on your behalf then it would seem to be illegal and VF would indeed look into it, however , to date everyone of these that have been investigated have proved to be legitimate apparently.

ps. you can't blame Vodafone for everything, posts on this forum are made by the general public, it is an open forum, Vodafone have no control over how other posters view your actions on this forum.

This post has been edited by Mascell: 09 August 2009 - 10:44 AM

[Jarmani]

Mascell
Again, you repeat what you have said before (cut and paste?) and still fail to answer the question. Why don't you just leave it to Paul Brislen to answer once he has done his homework?
And using the excuse that Telecom does it so why can't Vodafone is as puerile as my son saying all his friends plagiarise their homework so therefore it MUST be OK so why can't he. Also, Telecom is not my mobile phone provider.
Again, you state that people genuinely want to be suckered into to signing up for IQ Quiz etc. Yeah, right! If this was so why the extremely small print which is not even viewable unless the page is scrolled down? Why is it so hard to get the Vodafone help desk (after paying a $1 each time and waiting forever!) to give accurate information on how to terminate these unwanted texts and charges? Why is it that Vodafone won't let their customers block SMS activity on their childrens mobiles? You say that all that is needed is to text STOP to the offending number - this is NOT what the Vodafone help desk says first time round.
Now, just leave it to Paul Brislen to answer my initial question. I am really wanting an answer here.

[Sam]

I don't think the word 'pedant' applies here. I am just looking for a straightforawrd answer to my question. But already the attempts to put down, belittle and deride have started. This appears to be Vodafone's standard ploy in shutting down discussion on this shady practice in which they appear to be complicit.

I don't work for, or have any association with Vodafone bar being a customer. My opinion is my own, so I don't see how that somehow is a reflection of (or on) Vodafone's business practices.

If you really wanted a timely answer, without creating a scene and getting input from other members, you'd have PM'd Paul Brislen.

The fact you didn't speaks volumes.

[Jarmani]

It is not neccesary to have activated the SMS activity from the mobile, it can be done on facebook from a PC or other device by entering the mobile number in the required field to obtain results for an IQ test.

Do you work for Vodafone? Are you their official spokesperson? I am asking this as Paul Brislen has implied that it is necessary to PIN back a number from the mobile before any charges are made. He did this in a previous post and has not yet clarified that this is the case. I would like him to confirm this, especially as you (and JohnR) are the ONLY two people who say different. The Vodafone help desk also insist that a PIN is required - but they also say Vodafone makes no money from this scam. (Yeah, right, they probably take a greater cut from this than other SMS services because they know its dodge).

If Paul Brislen is correct then I (and many others) may have a case for getting the money back that has been drained from prepay accounts. The hassle of Vodafone having to do this may make them rethink their acceptance of this dodgy practice.

[Mascell]

My response was not cut and paste, I was merely offering help which you obviously don't want !

I suspect you are a troll because you post in a public forum but want a personal response from one person.

If I wish to post in this forum I will..if you don't like it do the other thing you rude little person.

Vodafone mods dictate who posts here NOT YOU !!

Paul has already advised you pm him your details ..deal with it !!

[Jarmani]

If you really wanted a timely answer, without creating a scene and getting input from other members, you'd have PM'd Paul Brislen.
The fact you didn't speaks volumes.

Speaks volumes of what? Other than that I am wanting Paul Brislen to state publicly what the situation is for the enlightenment of us all. Everyone I've asked is certain that it is not possible to be scammed unless their is activity on their phone. They are unaware that they can be signed up inadvertantly via their Facebook page or maliciously by someone else.

[Paul Brislen]

Hi Jarmani,

Premium TXT services run on a double opt-in principle. Customers can sign up in one of two ways: Mobile or Internet.

Mobile sign up.

Customers TXT a request to a short code (eg 1234) asking to sign up for a service. The service responds with a request for verification. The customer replies with a YES and the service begins. Those TXTs are all free.

If the customer does not respond with a YES (or similar response) the service does not start. A customer who receives an unwanted confirmation TXT need only ignore it. They will not be billed.

Internet sign up.

Customer enters their mobile number on a website. A confirmation TXT is sent to the phone and the customer must respond for the service to begin.

In both cases the customer will be sent a "welcome to our service" message by the provider which includes opt out mechanisms and a contact number/website for the service provider.

In both cases, customers can stop the service by TXTing the word STOP to the short code in question.

To answer your question directly: no, it is not possible except in the most rare of situations (see below).

I've been involved in this discussion for a couple of years now. I have yet to find more than a handful of examples of customers being signed up outside these parameters. Where that has occurred it's due to the customer acquiring a new mobile number that hasn't been adequately cleaned (for want of a better word) after being previously used. The previous owner had signed up for Premium TXT services and they continued to run. In all those cases the customer was refunded in full.

You'll find more discussions on the topic of Premium TXT here in the forums and here and here and here.

I imagine the reason you're getting such an exasperated reply is because this topic has been covered in quite some detail on numerous occasions.

So what should you do if you find you've subscribed (or your "friend" signed you up at the pub, or your teenager has signed up and doesn't know how or when etc) and want to question it? You'll need to contact the provider in the first instance. This link from the Vodafone website on Premium TXT services includes a PDF with the list of providers, what they charge and who they are, along with their contact numbers.

If you contact them and they fail to respond, call 777, tell the customer service rep that you've contacted them and you want to ESCALATE the situation with Vodafone. Ask them to contact the Premium TXT team, get a complaint number. The team will then contact the provider directly and make sure they get in touch with you.

Vodafone can not refund in this situation.

I hope that helps.

As an aside, I object strongly to the idea that Vodafone has a "standard ploy in shutting down discussion" on any topic. We simply do not condone such behaviour and the only threads that are removed are either spam or have legally dubious content. We set up these forums so customers could ask questions and receive answers. Why on earth would we do that if we were then to censor them?

As a former journalist I take it very personally when someone tells me I'm engaged in censorship. I think you'll find other forums are far more willing to remove content that might offend them than we are here at Vodafone's forums.

Cheers

Paul

[Jarmani]

If I wish to post in this forum I will..if you don't like it do the other thing you rude little person.

Paul has already advised you pm him your details ..deal with it !!

I was not being rude - just advising that you have told me all this before (ie. your comments re people want this service etc etc). I see little point in your telling me this again when it is completely off topic. You are just clouding the issue by trying (again) to get the discussion onto something completely unrelated. If you don't work for Vodafone, what is your motive in patrolling this messageboard and trying to shut down my query with abuse? Surely the best way to get me to stop posting is to get Vodafone to make a definitive statement on the matter?

And just why is it not possible for Paul Brislen to respond to this in a public forum? Surely, the more people aware of the problem the less are going to be sucked in. In my experience NO-ONE is aware that they can be signed up by anyone. No PIN required.

[Jarmani]

Internet sign up.

Customer enters their mobile number on a website. A confirmation TXT is sent to the phone and the customer must respond for the service to begin.

So, if I understand you correctly, there MUST be a response to the TXT before any registration can take place? If I was signed up with NO reponse then that is illegal?

I am just trying to be clear on this because I did NOt respond to the TXT and, also, JohnR and Mascell who post here have said that a confirmation text is not necessary.

[Sam]

And just why is it not possible for Paul Brislen to respond to this in a public forum? Surely, the more people aware of the problem the less are going to be sucked in. In my experience NO-ONE is aware that they can be signed up by anyone. No PIN required.

If you read the post 6 minutes prior to yours, you'd see that Paul did reply.

[oxnsox]

Jarmanji... If all the response replies you get EACH TIME you revisit this issue are the same is there not a message there for you.....
You appear simply to be behaving like your teenage son.... and repeating the question until you get the answer you seek.

...are we there yet???

[Paul Brislen]

Your phone will have replied to the TXT. Whether that's you or someone else using that phone is another question, but the service will not begin until that TXT has been received.

If you feel you have been signed up to a service outside those parameters, you need to contact the provider, establish exactly when you were signed up and take the matter further.

If they don't help you in a timely fashion you can escalate it as I've outlined by calling 777 and raising a ticket item. Our premium team will then look into it and see what's going on. But, as I said, I have yet to see anyone signed up to such a service against their will. Typically we'll provide the time of the response TXT and someone will remember being at the pub/letting a friend or relative have the phone at that time or some other similar explanation.

Cheers

Paul

[oxnsox]

...are we there yet???

[Paul Brislen]

Yes. Yes we are.

[Jarmani]

OK, we now have a definitive answer - Vodafone consider that you cannot be scammed unless your phone is used to sign up. However, I am absolutely certain my phone was never used for this (as are other posters you linked to). The details came from my Facebook page.

Paul, it is interesting, is it not, that those links you gave confirm that the Vodafone help desk fails to give the correct details on how to unsubscribe - my experience as well. Also, it seems that Vodafone insists on pleading innocent to this scam - as if they don't make a cent out of it. They even have people who have been scammed thanking Vodafone for their 'help'! - not realising Vodafone is complicit in this practice.

I would think Vodafone are doing very well from it and there still a lot more 'fresh meat' out there amongst their customers. It is not true that Vodafone cannot sift out the bad eggs from their SMS customers. Unfortunately for we customers, it is those bad eggs that funnel a good chunk of dosh into the Vodafone coffers. From internet searches I have found that Vodafone have quite a reputation for this elsewhere in the world.

I know you are about to hit the 'kill' button on this thread so I'm out of here - save you the trouble. Goodbye.

This post has been edited by Jarmani: 09 August 2009 - 01:53 PM

[oxnsox]

ahhh.... arrived.

... anyone for an i-scream....